Honda CB1000R Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Interested in getting peoples views on a road accident I was involved in. I have attached a video of the accident, please post in the comments where you think the blame lies. Although the video doesn't show it up very well the silver car was indicating to turn right.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,974 Posts
Blue car is probably most at fault because he is overtaking and it is his responsibility to do so carefully.

But.

Since you are in Blighty, the silver car could have hugged the crown better to make his maneuver more clear. It would be easy to interpret that he is waiting to pull out, rather than make the turn, because he is somewhat close to the curb. In fact he is far closer to the curb than to the crown of the road, where he should be. Here in America, no one understands road position, so there's no sense thinking like that :-(

Silver car should know to watch his mirrors.

Blue car should be aware of the intersection and approach silver car with caution. Silver car was moving to make the turn before Blue car came into the frame. Blue car doesn't appear to react until the last moment because I think he is assuming the Silver car is moving forward not turning.

Last comment: Blue car is overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic, so clearly he thought there was room to get past, suggesting my point about poor road position on behalf of the Silver car is contributory.

I'm pretty sure legally the Blue car gets the fault, though since I am no legal expert I suppose it's possible Silver car gets some blame for being a bad driver too.

I'd guess the driver is old and drives like a codger everywhere and should have stopped driving 5 years ago LOL. Which means you are the driver in the Blue car HAH.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,909 Posts
The driver of the blue car every time. You don't try and overtake a car that is signalling a right turn unless your brain is switched off.

( Probably texting anyway. Lol. )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Right then, the background to this accident.

I was the old codger driving the silver car and firmly believed I wasn't to blame for it. Initially the insurance company agreed with me and all was going well. Then their legal department got involved, they rang me last week and said I was to blame. Their reasoning for this was, the blue car had crossed the centre line before I moved off to make my right turn, therefore I should have seen this and not proceeded. As you can imagine there was quite a heated debate about this but they were adamant I was to blame. That was my reason for posting on here to get opinions, so I could hopefully use them to help my complaint to the insurers.

BUT, fast forward to today, the claim handler looking after this claim rang me. He had no idea the legal department had done what they did and was mortified by it. So he has rescinded the offer to settle made by the legal department and is now pursuing this on the basis the other driver is 100% at fault.

Watch this space.........

PS C'mon Bigone and Oldcorrolas, like I would be seen dead driving a renault Megan :D:D:D
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
7,101 Posts
Geordie, the driver of the blue car is 100% to blame, no doubt at all. It looks to me like he/she wasn't paying attention at all as well as going too fast, probably distracted as many seem to be these days. I suppose a positive is that you weren't making the right turn on your bike when that happened !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I suppose a positive is that you weren't making the right turn on your bike when that happened !
That doesn't bear thinking about. If he could spin an estate car around, what chance would a bike have!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,974 Posts
The adjuster who concluded the blue car crossed the centre line before you moved off is a moron. Where is that a thing in the Highway Code?

I still say you should work on your road positioning, no matter how at-fault the driver of the blue car is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I still say you should work on your road positioning, no matter how at-fault the driver of the blue car is.
You make a very valid point mate, my road positioning was poor. But, there is a reason for that.

This accident happened literally outside my house, the video is from my home CCTV. I have lived on this road for the last fifty six years and have in that time observed a few things that would shock you.

What the video doesn't show, is that just beyond it's view is a bus stop. What tends to happen, when a bus is stopped at the bus stop, cars will pass them at speed, then struggle to get back on their rightful side of the road before this junction. That is why locals, like myself, tend to adopt a position slightly away from the white line.

That said, after this incident, I have had to rethink how i approach this junction. I did think a car in the middle of the carriageway with its indicator on would be enough to warn other road users, obviously I was wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,909 Posts
You make a very valid point mate, my road positioning was poor. But, there is a reason for that.

This accident happened literally outside my house, the video is from my home CCTV. I have lived on this road for the last fifty six years and have in that time observed a few things that would shock you.

What the video doesn't show, is that just beyond it's view is a bus stop. What tends to happen, when a bus is stopped at the bus stop, cars will pass them at speed, then struggle to get back on their rightful side of the road before this junction. That is why locals, like myself, tend to adopt a position slightly away from the white line.

That said, after this incident, I have had to rethink how i approach this junction. I did think a car in the middle of the carriageway with its indicator on would be enough to warn other road users, obviously I was wrong.
NO---You were not wrong. Indicators tell other road users your intentions.---If they choose to ignore them then THEY are in the wrong, NOT you..----Think of all the mess the roads would be in if everybody decided to ignore stop lights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I think you should name&shame your insurance company. It's obvious the blue car is at fault. That idiot was making an overtaking move and was not giving enough space. Secondly, I'd request they resit their driving test as overtaking at a junction is a big fat NO-NO! If you'd have known your insurance company (insert name here) was going to argue then you'd have got he police involved for a proper incident report. Shame I guess. Good luck here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,974 Posts
NO---You were not wrong. Indicators tell other road users your intentions.---If they choose to ignore them then THEY are in the wrong, NOT you..----Think of all the mess the roads would be in if everybody decided to ignore stop lights.
Indicators are a courtesy, and open to interpretation. You should pay attention to them and consider what the intent is.

We don't know what was in the mind of the driver of the blue car, but he could have interpreted the signal in one of two ways: the driver is pulling out into traffic, in which case the onus is on the driver to look carefully behind to make sure it is safe. Or, the driver was planning to turn, in which case even though it would be wise to do a mirror/shoulder check before turning, we could surmise that his attention is forwards, not backwards and a shoulder check likely won't happen.

Assuming he noticed the signal at all.

The blue car, in performing an overtake, must do so with appropriate caution. So he is a bad puppy. But if you are going to ignore the precise road- positioning of the turning car and somehow always 'know' his intent exactly as he means it, then you are way more psychic than me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,909 Posts
The driver was stationary and indicating his intention to turn right. ( Right ? )--Not pulling out into traffic as that had already been done.

I believe indicators are MANDATORY.---You won't pass an MOT if they are not working.

The blue car driver was the cause of the damage as he drove into the van. The van was moving AWAY at the time of the impact.

If the blue car had stopped there would have been no accident. He took the risk of trying to pass a car that was about to turn right.

He rolled the dice and lost.---------:bad

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,974 Posts
Lol. It is impossible to know what is in a driver's mind, even if your text is pink.

Having indicators that work if installed is definitely a legal requirement.

USING THEM is not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,974 Posts
Trevloc, take a good look at this picture.

How far do you estimate this van is from the curb? And how far from the centre line? Do you know that you would know for certain, coming up behind the van, that the flashing indicators mean turning, today, or pulling into traffic to go straight tomorrow?

I ask again: how would you know for certain that the van driver's intent is definitely to turn right?




Screenshot_20190810-074421_Chrome.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,909 Posts
Trevloc, take a good look at this picture.

How far do you estimate this van is from the curb? And how far from the centre line? Do you know that you would know for certain, coming up behind the van, that the flashing indicators mean turning, today, or pulling into traffic to go straight tomorrow?

I ask again: how would you know for certain that the van driver's intent is definitely to turn right?




View attachment 46822
There would be no need for me to know the van drivers intention. No need at all as I would not pass that flashing indicator.

I guess that's why, perhaps , I've driven for 65 years on the roads in cars and on bikes and NEVER been involved in an accident with any other road user.----I've also helped to make insurance companies wealthy by never having made a claim.---Lol.

( Actually all us bikers know that by riding bikes we have a much better idea of what is happening on the road than those who have only ever driven a car. ) No steel box about our fragile bodies makes us develop an acute sense of danger. Without that none of us would last long. Re. ice, oil, diesel-and maybe myopic car drivers.

Take care and get there is a good motto. Much needed by the driver of the blue car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,974 Posts
I cry bullshit. You were sure he was signaling to turn right before. I guarantee every rider and driver has passed someone who was signaling to pull into traffic. I note that you didn't bother to give your estimates of road position.

I *suspect* this insurance claim will not be a slam dunk against the blue car. Geordie might have to shoulder a portion of the blame.


"The driver was stationary and indicating his intention to turn right. ( Right ? )--Not pulling out into traffic as that had already been done."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,909 Posts
I cry bullshit. You were sure he was signaling to turn right before. I guarantee every rider and driver has passed someone who was signaling to pull into traffic. I note that you didn't bother to give your estimates of road position.

I *suspect* this insurance claim will not be a slam dunk against the blue car. Geordie might have to shoulder a portion of the blame.


"The driver was stationary and indicating his intention to turn right. ( Right ? )--Not pulling out into traffic as that had already been done."
This is just a CALM discussion between forum members , Right ? We are not at war and neither of us is named TRUMP. Lol.

I can only take the OP's word for it. ----See post 1,--- that he WAS indicating.

If you think he is lying then that is your prerogative.---- He, by the way, was NOT signalling to pull into traffic, he was signalling he wanted to TURN RIGHT. ( As per post one. )

As to road position, it would only be a guess on my part and as such not really relevant to the discussion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Ironically road position has not been questioned, as stated earlier they believed I had started my right turn after the blue car had moved over the white line and that was the basis for me being blamed.

Even though the insurance company have now done a U turn and claim to be fighting for a no blame settlement for me, I recieved a letter from them discussing my complaint. It contained the following text:-

I’m sorry you are disappointed with the liability decision made by our credit hire handler, Heather. I understand that she called you on 1 August 2019 and stated that based on the third-party allegations and your footage, we would not be able to defend but would be aiming for a 50/50 split lability. In order to mitigate our losses, she paid the third-party vehicle damage on a without prejudice basis.

So basically, even before she had seen the full allegations made against me, she admitted defeat and has paid the third party. I now don't see how I can come out of this blame free, as paying out is as much as admitting responsibility in my eyes.
But it is there in black and white, the insurance company were mitigating their losses. In other words, it is cheaper to pay up than defend me!

I should also add, it looks like Heather had misinterpreted the case law. The case law stated the maximum blame I should carry for this accident was 25%, so why offer to go 50/50?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,974 Posts
This is just a CALM discussion between forum members , Right ? We are not at war and neither of us is named TRUMP. Lol.

I can only take the OP's word for it. ----See post 1,--- that he WAS indicating.


If you think he is lying then that is your prerogative.---- He, by the way, was NOT signalling to pull into traffic, he was signalling he wanted to TURN RIGHT. ( As per post one. )

As to road position, it would only be a guess on my part and as such not really relevant to the discussion.

of course it’s just discussion. Where did I question whether Geordie was indicating or not? I don’t understand where you think I questioned Geordie’s honesty. I questioned where the Blue driver might interpret what he saw, if he was even paying attention.

I remain fascinated that you appear deaf and blind to the fact that a signal ‘s intended meaning is open to interpretation.

@Geordie, I’m also fascinated by the insurer’s stance that the Blue car had crossed the line before you moved. I’d be questioning the accuracy of that contention. Ironically it seems like you begin to move at the same time the Blue car comes into the frame. I’m not sure it is possible to tell with certainty that it has crossed the line at that moment.

what is your plan, Geordie? Are you going to try to fight the decision? I assume yes on the 25 vs 50% share of blame ...?
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top