[JJON]

What do you think, should Honda have detuned the Blade engine or left it as is?

I know we've still to see the final specs, but the general opinion seems to be 130bhp max, which is a big chunk knocked off the 170bhp of the '07 Blade.

Alot of people would have been hoping for an all out, full power naked, Tuono style. I used to think the same until one night I did an experiment with the Hornet to see how long I could keep going for at 140mph.* Reckon I lasted for about 2 miles (max) and my neck was acheing for the next 2 days, quickly decided that a naked 175mph beast was pointless apart from pub talk.

BUT, will the CB be a detune or a retune? The loss of 40bhp should see better low and mid range pull, but will it be that noticeable? I'd like to think that the CB will quicker off the lights than a sportsbike, but can you really get any quicker? Seems to me that the litre sportsbikes are only being held back by tyres and the front coming up, on the road would the CB be faster from the lights? Will it be quicker out of corners? Bare in mind that as a 600 rider, Torque is something I've yet to experience, which is why I'm asking these questions. The loss of 40bhp isn't something that will deter me, I've no doubt that the power of the bike will blow my socks off, but those who are used to riding litre bikes may see 130bhp and think 'Nope, not enough power for me'.



*Your honour, please note that I'm a compulsive liar :hello

 

[Antnee]

Personally I think they're right to retune it for lower down grunt. It's not horsepower that accelerates you away hard, it's torque. A 1000cc engined bike with more low down torque will pull away quicker than a 1000cc bike with top end horse power. Just ask the guys at work with the 600 sports bikes. They slaughter me when we're booting it at high revs, but not once has any of them beat me off the line on my Hornet. Of course they all say "I didn't want to push it there" but the truth is that they can't. They can match me for torque, but theirs peaks 3 or 4k rpm higher. That said, you're talking fractions of a second anyway and so much is down to the rider. I tend to launch my Hornet with the front wheel hovering off the floor by an inch or two for 100yds I think that's about as good as you can get on takeoff

As you say, a naked bike has little use for 140mph+ speeds and although the Tuono will do 160+, it takes forever to get there because that last 20mph uses so much extra power due to the bike having the aerodynamic efficiency of a house. I'd rather have low-down, more easy to use power than top end, screaming horsepower. That said, the CBF1000 at about 3bhp more than the 600 Hornet is taking it a bit too far for my liking

 

[JJON]

That said, the CBF1000 at about 3bhp more than the 600 Hornet is taking it a bit too far for my liking

Funny you say that, a former Hornet owner who went on to a CBF1000 told me there was no way he could ever get back on the Hornet as it felt so underpowered compared to the CBF. Obviously he was reffering to the torque, but it does go some way to showing the difference even with the CBF's low bhp.

 

[Antnee]

Oh absolutely, the CBF has masses of torque on offer. I heard someone say that they just go everywhere in 3rd. So much so that they forgot to shift into first when they pulled up and just pulled away, albeit slowly, in 3rd

 

[DAN]

As I think John knowa from the rideouts this year... my bike is quick (not because I riding it... I'm just your average rider... someone like PJ is much quicker than me)... I also had a bit of speed going with Jerrys Blade and I was able to stay with him most of the way.... but we are talking high speeds here... not around town... not off the lights etc...

The FZ1 kicks out 135 standard... I think it is quoted at 150 by Yamaha.... If Honda quote the CB1000R at 130 then you can be sure it will be less...say 120bhp.... but then weight also comes into play... how will that affect it.

For me usable power is power lower in the mid range, because where must of us average riders ride our bikes... The FZ1 revs and revs... it gets very very very quick too... and still it revs and revs.... but the power is always building....rather than being instant like you'd get with a bike with lots of torque....it really comes down to what you like I guess.

The FZ1 John is perhaps like your 600 Hornet... except it does everything quicker.... you still have to rev the ass off it though.

Casting my memory back to the 900 Hornet... basically you needed really just two/three gears - 2/3/4 they were enough to see off most competition around town... I'd expect the CB1000R to be similar in this regard, but with a bit more power, speed and better looks (also crucial)

So back to the question.... detune or not... well if they get the balance right then absolutely detune!

 

[JJON]

The only negative thing I've read about the FZ1 (apart from the 06 fuel problem) is that it could do with more low and mid power. Seems a bit odd as it's not something the R1 has ever had thrown at it, is this to say that the FZ1 has less low and mid pull than the R1? I thought the whole point of retuning the naked bikes was to give them more low down grunt.

 

[Antnee]

No, it's to say that for the type of bike it is, it should have more low down grunt. Nobody expects a supersport to have that, it's not normal! In all the reviews I saw of the FazerThou v the CBF1000 the CBF won every time despite its lack of power. Go figure

 

[DAN]

Yes it is a strange criticism... midrange isn't great but you acheive the same power output by increasing the revs.... as I say this means you build it up rather than having it on tap.... and that said from from standstill to 100mph is just a few seconds...

Compared to the R1 I believe the FZ1 has better mid range.... certainly more linear.. there will be dyno's for comparison on here... http://www.yamahafz1oa.com
But the R1 is designed for all out speed really.

 

[Antnee]

But the R1 is designed for all out speed really.

Exactly! Which is why nobody criticises the R1's lack of low down grunt because it's not expected to have it.

 

[Tifa]

Torque, torque torque....every time....
my tuono bangs out iro 130hp at the r/wheel, and believe me....it's more than plenty for the road.....the torque it develops it fantastic...

think for a moment of the most intricate and complicated series of twisties.....now here's a quick recipe for a brilliant riding experience

1) you just leave it in 3rd
2) you forget all about gears, revs & powerbands
3) forget about the clutch too

4) just peel into that next turn
5) look for the apex
6) and then nail the bastid...HARD

7) repeat until bends are behind you..or until your tanks empty....

 

[Antnee]

Sounds like a recipe for fun to me Tifa; I like it! :thumbup

 

[DAN]

And most likely the recipe that the CB1000R will serve up.... in the torque stakes 300+ cc's (over a 600) really makes a big difference.

 

[Ripper]

Torque has got be the way to go. I'm often surprised how quick i'm riding even though i may not be thrashing it but that is part of the joy of the 900 Hornet's torque. Some consider it lazy or less exciting than chasing a red line but it tends to be the quickest way (rider dependant of course).
Nakeds are not about astronomical top speeds so 170 bhp is pointless. Remember that bhp is just torque x rpm (or something similar) so low torque and a high rev limit, as with a 600 sports bike, will give reasonable bhp as will high torque and lower rev limits. I'd rather have more torque (with plenty of bhp thrown in for good measure)

 

[DAN]

:welcome mate

so are you in the market for a CB1000R?

 

[Ripper]

I might just be. The 02 Hornet is getting a little long in the tooth and needs the battery to be on charge regularly if i want it to start after more than a week of being left idle. Only 3 small issues to sort before i can splash some cash, 1) Need to see the facts figures and the bike in the flesh, 2) Some cash and 3) the missus (might have to get her a new car first which then makes no 2 more of a problem)

 

[DAN]

OK mate... any information I get will be placed in the CB1000R general forum I think... so it might be worthwhile subscribing to it, then you'll receive email updates... By the way are you going to the show at the end of the month to take a look at the bike?

 

[Ripper]

Had been thinking about going and talked a mate into going as well so i shall be there on the Friday

 

[DAN]

Excellent... I should (well think I will be going)... helping out on the Riders for Health stand... just waiting to hear if it is a definite and what day.

I'll be mainly shopping for a new lid and some boots.

 

[Antnee]

3) the missus (might have to get her a new car first which then makes no 2 more of a problem)

Yeah, that may be the only way I can get my fingers on the bike too. The Mrs isn't very receptive to me getting another bike before she gets a new car. She's had the car for long enough for me to have had three bikes already :rollin

 

[DAN]

My missus isn't receptive to me full stop! :lol :lol :lol