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Discussion Starter #1
I have noticed that full throttle does not represent full throttle!
how to explain this?

In 6th gear, when I roll off WOT by 5mm (maybe less),, bike accelerate harder than full throttle. very noticeable.
I can say WOT = 90-95% throttle

anybody else noticed this?
 

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There's a good reason for that. The manufacturers know that the power output of these latest bikes is more than the average rider can handle.

To that end they have taken some of this power out of the hands of the rider and have given it to the ECU.
This makes unskilled riders feel that they are in control of all this power, but they are not.---The thing that you have noticed is the ECU managing you and not the other way round.---:rollin
 

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I have noticed that full throttle does not represent full throttle!
how to explain this?

In 6th gear, when I roll off WOT by 5mm (maybe less),, bike accelerate harder than full throttle. very noticeable.
I can say WOT = 90-95% throttle

anybody else noticed this?
Every bike I've owned feels like this. With or without efi and ride-by-wire.
 

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With throttle by wire, all you're doing is giving the ECM a request for 0-100% throttle opening, the ECM decides how much you really get. Compare a non-TBW Fuel injected bike to a carbureted bike.

You can actually give a carbureted bike TOO much throttle and it will not accelerate as fast as possible because you're unable to get physics to pull in enough fuel/air. With a fuel injection bike, you can always give the bike an accurate value for the amount of air it gets based on how much throttle opening is, so the ECM knows how to give the appropriate amount of fuel.

Nowadays, with emissions, the bike will only allow certain amounts of throttle opening despite what you might be asking it. Hell, you could have it like a modern car where you can floor it in Eco mode but all the ECU is going to give you is 60% throttle opening.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
since everything is decided by a computer, why not make WOT = full power?
imagine you decide to modulate your speed/acceleration from a WOT situation by rolling off millimeters of the throttle, bike will accelerate more.
this is inconvenient and not safe.
 

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since everything is decided by a computer, why not make WOT = full power?
imagine you decide to modulate your speed/acceleration from a WOT situation by rolling off millimeters of the throttle, bike will accelerate more.
this is inconvenient and not safe.
Not safe? Like I said, all my bikes do that and have done for decades. It's weird when you encounter it, but if you have the skill to modulate your speed just off full throttle on a litre bike, you'll figure it out..
 

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I have noticed that full throttle does not represent full throttle!
how to explain this?

In 6th gear, when I roll off WOT by 5mm (maybe less),, bike accelerate harder than full throttle. very noticeable.
I can say WOT = 90-95% throttle

anybody else noticed this?
at what RPM range?

hard to imagine it doing this above 7-8000... but in the 4-6000 emissions/low port velocity region, for sure

There's a good reason for that. The manufacturers know that the power output of these latest bikes is more than the average rider can handle.

To that end they have taken some of this power out of the hands of the rider and have given it to the ECU.
This makes unskilled riders feel that they are in control of all this power, but they are not.---The thing that you have noticed is the ECU managing you and not the other way round.---:rollin
what twaddle :D
 

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I have noticed that full throttle does not represent full throttle!
how to explain this?

In 6th gear, when I roll off WOT by 5mm (maybe less),, bike accelerate harder than full throttle. very noticeable.
I can say WOT = 90-95% throttle

anybody else noticed this?
I’m confused to what you actually mean sorry. So your WOT in 6th, then roll off 5mm. How does the bike “accelerate harder than full throttle” if you have rolled off from WOT? I’m confused sorry.... anyone explain?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
BigOne-94-14 said:
Not safe? Like I said, all my bikes do that and have done for decades. It's weird when you encounter it, but if you have the skill to modulate your speed just off full throttle on a litre bike, you'll figure it out..
i'm just whining..

Apri11 said:
How does the bike “accelerate harder than full throttle” if you have rolled off from WOT?
exactly

you got that right
 

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at what RPM range?

hard to imagine it doing this above 7-8000... but in the 4-6000 emissions/low port velocity region, for sure


what twaddle :D
EXACTLY the same impression I get from some of your poorly thought out posts.


Look out----Incoming.---------( By the way I DID design part of the guidance system of the rapier missile. )


 

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With throttle by wire, all you're doing is giving the ECM a request for 0-100% throttle opening, the ECM decides how much you really get. Compare a non-TBW Fuel injected bike to a carbureted bike.

You can actually give a carbureted bike TOO much throttle and it will not accelerate as fast as possible because you're unable to get physics to pull in enough fuel/air. With a fuel injection bike, you can always give the bike an accurate value for the amount of air it gets based on how much throttle opening is, so the ECM knows how to give the appropriate amount of fuel.

Nowadays, with emissions, the bike will only allow certain amounts of throttle opening despite what you might be asking it. Hell, you could have it like a modern car where you can floor it in Eco mode but all the ECU is going to give you is 60% throttle opening.
What you say---------



 

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since everything is decided by a computer, why not make WOT = full power?
imagine you decide to modulate your speed/acceleration from a WOT situation by rolling off millimeters of the throttle, bike will accelerate more.
this is inconvenient and not safe.
WOT is just that when high up the rev range but at lower speeds you would spend most of your time viewing the sky or ending up like this forum member.----



 

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I’m confused to what you actually mean sorry. So your WOT in 6th, then roll off 5mm. How does the bike “accelerate harder than full throttle” if you have rolled off from WOT? I’m confused sorry.... anyone explain?
I'll try.-Lol.---Depends on the speed.--Mid range revs at WOT does not mean full power. Just what the ECU is programmed to give you to stop the rear tyre from spinning up or the front tyre rapidly leaving contact with the road.

As soon as the bike speed increases the ECU gradually feeds in more and more power until the engine has reached maximum output.

The rider stays happily rubber side down.---:rollin
 

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I have noticed that full throttle does not represent full throttle!
how to explain this?

In 6th gear, when I roll off WOT by 5mm (maybe less),, bike accelerate harder than full throttle. very noticeable.
I can say WOT = 90-95% throttle

anybody else noticed this?
just to be clear, full throttle is 20mm rotation of the grip, so 5mm = 75% throttle. that's a fair bit
90% throttle would be 2mm less than WOT (95% = 1mm)

perhaps there could a placebo effect where you expect the bike to slow, but maintains rate of acceleration?

however it really depends where in the rev range, as the change in timing and fuel is quite different through the maps, as well as the slight decel fuel cut.
this makes a very large difference midway through the rev range where the port velocity is low.
 

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alternatively, you could check the voltages of your APS (throttle sensor)

there are actually 2 position sensors in there.
both VCC1 (Y-R) and VCC2 (W-R) should be +5V

the output of APS1 should be 4.433-4.567V with throttle open, and 0.433-0.567 with throttle closed.
the output of APS2 should be 2.183-2.317V with throttle open, and 0.183-0.317 with throttle closed.
the voltage for APS1 should smoothly increase all the way, (and APS2 decrease) with no changes or dips.

there are diagrams, but is basically standard method for checking a TPS (here, each row of three pins is a separate sensor)


Colvert, can you please check this on your NSC CB1000R as well please? ;)
 

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This! A simple check with a voltmeter will verify what the throttle is doing. Seat-of-the-pants is notoriously unreliable.

Honda is famous for sandbagging the ignition timing at WOT in high gear. Maybe this is a factor?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
just to be clear, full throttle is 20mm rotation of the grip, so 5mm = 75% throttle. that's a fair bit
90% throttle would be 2mm less than WOT (95% = 1mm)

perhaps there could a placebo effect where you expect the bike to slow, but maintains rate of acceleration?
2 or 5mm,, you get the idea.
I double triple checked in 4th, 5th & 6th gear.
very noticeable
 

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Discussion Starter #20
🙂
What rpm range is it doing it?

With traction off or on?

Have you pulled error codes?
Or... Is it just the lean surge?
At power level 2&3 and traction control level 1&2.
Above 6k rpm.
Stock and rapid bike.
I have a strong feeling it's the damm computer
 
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