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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all, wonder if you guys can help here

So a few months ago I have been away for a month, took the battery out while I am away. When I was back and put the battery in it starts first time.

Lately it start to have problem starting. When press on starter button, fuel pumps, bike turn over but don't ignite, eventually it will catch and start. Hot start is similar but easier.

The bike was services with new oil and filter when I had it ( less than 1000miles ago)

So first thing I put a new battery in, that improve a bit. I took the opuntunuty and upgrades to lithium one to drop some weight, it improve a bit but still the same.

I also change the plugs and reset the ecu but it doesn't seems to improve the starting but the ride is a bit smoother.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Kit
 

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Do you have a multi-meter ??

If you have could you give us the voltage across the battery terminals before you switch on the ignition ?

Then please start the engine and give us the voltage across the terminals again at about 2,000 rpm.

Normally if the engine turns over but doesn't start it means you have low battery voltage.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Do you have a multi-meter ??

If you have could you give us the voltage across the battery terminals before you switch on the ignition ?

Then please start the engine and give us the voltage across the terminals again at about 2,000 rpm.

Normally if the engine turns over but doesn't start it means you have low battery voltage.
Just took some measurement today:

resting voltage: 13.03v

2000rpm: 13.89v

4000rpm: 14.01v


Bike is used every other day, when not in use its just parked with no maintenance thing as its now a lithium battery and i haven't got one for that.

Battery i got is : BATTERY MOTORCYCLE YTZ10S-FP JMT -

Problem is it will turn over no problem, just wont catch ignition until like a few tries of turning ignition on and off again etc

Forgot to mention, I have oxford hot grips on it but its on a relay so can only be turned on when bike have the ignition on will that make a difference?
 

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Those voltages are both OK. The problem must be elsewhere.

The grips shouldn't make a difference but can you turn them off and give it a try ? Just in case the voltage drop from the grips is causing a problem.

These CB's are quite voltage sensitive. A fraction too low and the engine will turn over but just won't start.

There have been a few on the forum that have had problems with side stand switch not turning off correctly with the stand up.

 

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Hi all,

I'm having similar starting issues with my Cb1000r, ie it turns over but won't fire, my battery voltages are the same as "kits".
I originally thought the starting issues happened after I replaced the battery but now I think this was a coincidence, my new battery is a Yuasa TTZ10S 8.6amp/hour, which is the same as the old one. ( I understand this isn't exactly the same as the factory battery - 12V 10ah) but it was fine with the old battery until it died.
Initially the starting problem (approximately 4 months ago) appeared to be a cold morning thing and if I cranked the throttle slightly it would first, but this has progressed into not wanting to start after work as well (4pm in the afternoon and warm temp) no matter what I do with the throttle now doesn't seem to help.

I did manage to get the bike hooked it up to Honda diagnostic software but it showed no faults, mileage is low at only 12000kms.

When I came back from three weeks Christmas holidays (it is our summer at the moment) it started fairly good.
This morning it struggled a bit but did fire after a few times on the starter, but this afternoon after work, it was the worst it's ever been and I almost thought it was going to run the battery flat but some how it managed to fire.
When I got home I left it for about an hour and tried starting it again and it didn't want to fire so I sprayed some engine start spray (ether) into the air box and it started pretty much straight a way leading me to think it definitely seems like a fuel/air issue.
I have read previously on the forum about the possibly of the idle air control valve sticking? But am not sure what is involved with checking this.
Does anyone have any possible solutions/ideas, I'm reluctant to take it into Honda because I normally complete all my own maintenance and it'll probably cost an arm and a leg!

Thanks 2wheeeler
 

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Hi there, bike has never been on it's side.

I've relented and taken it to the shop today to see what they can find, finger's crossed it's something easily found an inexpensive!
Luckily I've got a reliable 99 VFR800 to substitute in the mean time, I've just completed a 3800km tour of New Zealand's South Island on with no issues at all :)
 

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Mounting flooded batteries on their side is a bad idea. Not only do you run a small risk of leaking acid, but the plates inside are not fully submerged. The air bubble in the battery is exposing the leading edge of all the plates inside. Less available voltage/amperage and eventual sulfation of the exposed plates are the end result. batteries mounted on their side need to be AGM or lithium.

As Colvert has already mentioned, these bikes' batteries are barely sufficient and the bikes themselves are voltage sensitive when cranking. I have no idea if that is what you are up against, but hopefully the shop will get it sorted for you.

For anyone checking battery voltages, good voltage at rest doesn't mean it has good voltage while cranking. Batteries MUST be checked under load for proper diagnosis. A battery can show good voltage at rest, but crash below 9v while cranking, preventing the ignition or injection from working properly. No load tester? Use a meter with a min/max hold setting, check the key-on/engine-off voltage and the voltage while cranking. Those readings will give you a much better idea of battery condition.
 
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Join a known fully charged battery with jump leads to your bike battery. ( Car or bike battery. )

If the bike starts first time, every time, you need to give the bike battery a good check.

Your test will have proved you have a low voltage problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hi all thanks for all the response, I think I might have found the problem.

So as a mechanic would do, change fuel, plugs, battery and everything electrical related like side stand or protective circuitry etc. Since it rides normal when starts, I don't think it's to do with crank sensor(well maybe it is but this is like the last thing)

I have done some research and found that it could be to do with the Neutral gear/side stand diode as it could trigger the protective circuit (old thread on this forum) part number: 31730-mas-601 about £30 from Honda dealer

So I replaced it, its been a few ride and so far so good.
I will report back and see if this little diode cures it.
 

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Thanks Colvert.
A wee while ago I did hook up the VFR battery with jumper leads and it didn't appear to make a difference. Maybe I should of tried again, any way I'll update when I hear from the shop.
 

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Discussion Starter #14

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Got the CB back from the shop earlier in the week, they said that they'd hooked it up to the computer to check for faults (were none) then reset the ECU and according them it was staring fine. I was really excited and picked it up the next day. The following day it started fine and I was extremely hopeful. Yesterday morning it started fine, but after work no such luck :-( I thumbed the starter about 6x (engine turning over but not firing) in the end I tried a bit of throttle, it then attempted to fire and after a couple more times it fired up. Pissed off I rode around to the bike shop and spoke to the mechanic, he was miffed and said he'd do a bit of research over the weekend and then ring Honda HQ next week.

I'm fairly confident that my issues started happening after I fitted a new battery late last year, as previously mentioned I brought a Yuasa TTZ10S which I believe is a good quality battery.

Things I'm going to recheck this weekend is the voltage from the battery while cranking and also if it fails to start hooking up the VFR battery with jumper leads to see if that helps. Also spraying ""CRC engine start formula into the air box" which worked previosly. I also read on the forum about resetting the ECU manually so I may also have ago at that myself.
Failing that I guess it's back to the shop................
 

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mileage 1s 12000 km.

At the moment the Bike seems to start really well in the morning ambient temp 16 - 18 degrees C. But not good after work 26 - 30 degrees C.
I'm not sure if this is a coincidence but will monitor it this week before taking it back to Honda.
 

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I'm not sure with bikes but on the car forum I visit lots of people have trouble with the crank sensor.

The sensors seem to work fine when cold. However when the engine is stopped it wont start again until it's cooled down.

It has always been the sensor going out of spec with the heat. ( I think they are called a Hall Effect sensor but I'm not sure. )

The gap between the sensor tip and the actuator is critical. Apparently the gap opens fractionally with heat and the signal becomes intermittent.

Hence it might or might not start easily.
 

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I'm not sure with bikes but on the car forum I visit lots of people have trouble with the crank sensor.

The sensors seem to work fine when cold. However when the engine is stopped it wont start again until it's cooled down.

It has always been the sensor going out of spec with the heat. ( I think they are called a Hall Effect sensor but I'm not sure. )

The gap between the sensor tip and the actuator is critical. Apparently the gap opens fractionally with heat and the signal becomes intermittent.

Hence it might or might not start easily.
Sounds reasonable to me. COLVERT describes perfectly a failure mode of a Hall Effect Sensor. Correct air gap is critical to function. Depending on type correct supply voltage is also important to current output.
 

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Thanks guys for your feedback.
My theory of it starting worst when the ambient temperature is high may have been a red herring. So I've started recording how it starts each day to determine if there is a definite pattern. One thing I have just started to try is starting the bike while it's upright (I normally start the bike when it's on the side stand) so far it has started 1st time whilst doing this, I'm not sure if this a coincidence or maybe I'm going bonkers! Perhaps it relates to what "Kit" is saying about the Neutral gear/side stand diode? Any way I'm going to keep recording how it starts for another week and then I'll report back......
 
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