[Roaddetective]

Good evening RD.

Can I make a few suggestions ?

I’ll make a couple of assumptions first because I don’t know how similar the front and rear suspension setups are between your 2010 model and my 2020.
All I’d like to do basically is to make sure you’ve exhausted the following list before you spend a significant amount of money !
No.1 You have preload, compression and rebound adjustment up front.
No.2 You have preload and rebound adjustment only on the rear.
These assumptions are because I’m interested to know whether you’ve tried the approximate set up below for solo riding :

Front tyre pressure as recommended - 36psi
Rear tyre pressure not as recommended - 36/37psi unless carrying a pillion.
(in which case 42psi)

Front compression and preload - significantly lower than recommended for your weight.
Front rebound - at least 1 turn harder than recommended for your weight

Rear preload - one ramp step harder than recommended for your weight.
Rear rebound - at least half a turn harder than recommended for your weight.

Simply doing this to mine has transformed it from a ‘rodeo horse’ to something akin to a decent ride. This is all by my own trial and error over the last few weeks.
My thoughts are that the adjustment to the front end will make it ride more on its ‘nose’’, and those to the rear will control the violent rebound (as standard) that we all experience over bumps, and cut down weight transfer to the rear on acceleration.

I’ve posted about rear tyre pressures elsewhere on the forum to varying degrees of ‘acceptance’ by other members, but I still never stray from the above when riding solo.

Please don’t shoot the messenger but coming from a sportsbike with far more sophisticated suspension (that I also set up myself), the above changes have stopped me from constantly hounding Nitron and feeding my piggy bank !!

PS. My apparent ‘sloppy’ front end setup doesn’t cause the bike to wallow around as you might expect.

I’d thoroughly appreciate your thoughts.

Hi CannonBallRun
Today so far has been dry with a temp of 12 degrees, so time to get the bike out on a run to test the new suspension settings you gave me. I will say mate, there is some improvement. Riding through sunken drain covers and small potholes on purpose to test it, there was less getting knocked up off the seat. Taking the bends, it did feel different, a little softer I think. For me I did get some confident lean angles going. It's not overall how I would like it, but it is better than it was. Maybe I am expecting too much from the standard suspension. I am now a bit up in the air as to whether to spend quite a few hundred pounds on a new rear shock, or leave it as it is. Might I get that extra better handling with a new shock, probably. Will it be enough of an improvement to warrant spending the money, who knows. I will see next week after sending a couple of messages, what Maxton and Hagon come back with. From what I have read, I am a bit restricted with some shocks fitted with a hydraulic preload system though, as my bike has ABS brakes. Something to do with a part of the ABS system getting in the way at the top of the shock. Thanks again CannonBallRun. John

 

[CannonBallRun]

Hi Roaddetective.
I’m glad you got to test the bike out so soon and that you can feel some benefit. Great.👌
As you can probably now imagine, I’m as up in the air as you are about spending serious money on a new shock, or to just live with it..
There’s no guarantee that it would be money well spent…
At the end of the day, this is no super naked that we’re both ‘starting’ with.
I’m still not quite done with tweaking mine, but it’s now down to minor refinements.
In my settings recommendations yesterday, I wasn’t very specific about front preload and compression damping except to say go significantly softer on both.
That’s because I didn’t want you to immediately laugh me out of court.😬
To quote you my exact settings (and for my 2020 NSC I must emphasise)
For my weight (75kgs) I should be running 9 turns from full soft front preload - I’m running just 2 turns.
Again, for my weight I should be running 5.5 turns from full hard front compression - I’m running 7.5 turns.
As you can see, these are both virtually on minimum and really do ‘throw it on its nose’, with a new found level of compliance / comfort (without sacrificing handling in my humble opinion)
Perhaps you’d consider dialling these more precise settings in on your next ride, while leaving the rear as you’ve set it today ??
I see that you’ve also picked up on something that I discussed with Nitron themselves.
That is that their shocks for the CBthou we’re actually developed by Nitron in Japan and that on the home market I believe they didn’t have ABS……
Me being super cautious, this could just mean that the Nitron hydraulic preload line would foul the ABS pipe work; it looks as though it would be mighty close on my bike for sure.
Hope this helps.

 

[Roaddetective]

Hi Roaddetective.
I’m glad you got to test the bike out so soon and that you can feel some benefit. Great.👌
As you can probably now imagine, I’m as up in the air as you are about spending serious money on a new shock, or to just live with it..
There’s no guarantee that it would be money well spent…
At the end of the day, this is no super naked that we’re both ‘starting’ with.
I’m still not quite done with tweaking mine, but it’s now down to minor refinements.
In my settings recommendations yesterday, I wasn’t very specific about front preload and compression damping except to say go significantly softer on both.
That’s because I didn’t want you to immediately laugh me out of court.😬
To quote you my exact settings (and for my 2020 NSC I must emphasise)
For my weight (75kgs) I should be running 9 turns from full soft front preload - I’m running just 2 turns.
Again, for my weight I should be running 5.5 turns from full hard front compression - I’m running 7.5 turns.
As you can see, these are both virtually on minimum and really do ‘throw it on its nose’, with a new found level of compliance / comfort (without sacrificing handling in my humble opinion)
Perhaps you’d consider dialling these more precise settings in on your next ride, while leaving the rear as you’ve set it today ??
I see that you’ve also picked up on something that I discussed with Nitron themselves.
That is that their shocks for the CBthou we’re actually developed by Nitron in Japan and that on the home market I believe they didn’t have ABS……
Me being super cautious, this could just mean that the Nitron hydraulic preload line would foul the ABS pipe work; it looks as though it would be mighty close on my bike for sure.
Hope this helps.

Hi again CannonBallRun. With all my bike gear on my weight is 90kg. The only suspension chart I have is for the later NSC bike, so I have been going with that. The problem has been with my settings, some of them do not have as many turns of adjustment as the later bike. Front preload from soft says15 turns, I set it to 12 turns. Could go softer easily I suppose. Front compression says 5 turns from full hard. My compression adjustment hardly comes out 5 turns so I set it to 3 turns. Front rebound says on the chart, 2 turns from full hard. I set it to 3 turns from full hard. If I do go with an upgraded rear shock, I will let you know the result of any handling improvements, or no improvement as might be the case. I certainly know there would be an improvement in the ease of adjusting rear preload. Adjusting mine at the moment takes a really hard push or pull with an Ohlins C spanner wrapped in a soft rag to stop it digging into my hand. I have even sprayed the bottom of the shock with silicon grease to help it turn. You would never be able to turn it with the C spanner supplied with the bike. I guess like me, the bike is getting old and stiff to adjust. Lol.

 

[CannonBallRun]

Morning Roaddetective.
I’ve been comparing your settings to mine, particularly in light of your different range of adjustment.

I hope I’m reading your figures correctly. 😬
Starting in the order that you’ve written them down.
I don’t think you’re going extreme enough with preload. (We effectively want to drop front ride height)
As you say, you “could go softer easily”
That’s exactly what I’d recommend - say 4 turns from full soft ?

This is where the confusion can set in, because now we have to set from full hard. (reference the chart)
You’ve set front compression to 3 out of your max range of 5, so you're pretty much mid range.
I think I’d set yours to 4 from full hard. ie almost fast soft as you can go.
(I’m just half a turn from minimum compression in my range of 8)

As you say, front rebound should be set to 2 turns from full hard for your weight if we both use the NSC chart.
Yours is set to 3 turns from full hard, so you’ve actually gone softer.
I’d be setting it at 1 to 2 turns from full hard.


As far as adjusting the rear preload goes, I managed to find a beefy C spanner from China on eBay, which allows significantly more leverage, at the same time as not putting a permanent crease in my hand !
Photo to follow if I can work out how to do it !!

 

[CannonBallRun]

 

[Roaddetective]

Morning Roaddetective.
I’ve been comparing your settings to mine, particularly in light of your different range of adjustment.

I hope I’m reading your figures correctly. 😬
Starting in the order that you’ve written them down.
I don’t think you’re going extreme enough with preload. (We effectively want to drop front ride height)
As you say, you “could go softer easily”
That’s exactly what I’d recommend - say 4 turns from full soft ?

This is where the confusion can set in, because now we have to set from full hard. (reference the chart)
You’ve set front compression to 3 out of your max range of 5, so you're pretty much mid range.
I think I’d set yours to 4 from full hard. ie almost fast soft as you can go.
(I’m just half a turn from minimum compression in my range of 8)

As you say, front rebound should be set to 2 turns from full hard for your weight if we both use the NSC chart.
Yours is set to 3 turns from full hard, so you’ve actually gone softer.
I’d be setting it at 1 to 2 turns from full hard.


As far as adjusting the rear preload goes, I managed to find a beefy C spanner from China on eBay, which allows significantly more leverage, at the same time as not putting a permanent crease in my hand !
Photo to follow if I can work out how to do it !!

Will have another look at bike settings. The Ohlin C spanner does get a good grip on the rear preload ring, but it is just so hard to turn, especially of course if you want the spring tighter. You have to get to the best side of the bike for leverage and with one hand gripping the footrest bracket and the other hand on the spanner wrapped in a soft rag and give it an almighty pull.

 

[Roaddetective]

Well, I have now ordered a Maxton NR4 unit. It's a 5 week wait for them to build it for my needs, but from what I hear it is one of the best rear shocks around. Tried getting an Ohlins one at first, but according to a supplier, they are impossible to get hold of. They did tell me Ohlins have been sold to a Taiwan company, so maybe the build quality of an Ohlin shock might suffer. Anyway, a review of the Maxton unit by me once fitted will be posted.

 

[Bevo]

They did tell me Ohlins have been sold to a Taiwan company

From 2018

Suspension Manufacturer Öhlins Sold to Tenneco

Suspension manufacturer Öhlins Racing AB has been sold to automotive component maker Tenneco, an American Fortune 500 company.

blog.motorcycle.com

Headquarters:
Öhlins Racing AB
Box 722
194 27 Upplands Väsby
Sweden

Öhlins Distributors - Suspension Resellers | Öhlins

Öhlins Racing has distibutors in most parts of the world. Search by country and city to find the one closest to you and get their contact information!

www.ohlins.com

 

[Roaddetective]

From 2018

Suspension Manufacturer Öhlins Sold to Tenneco

Suspension manufacturer Öhlins Racing AB has been sold to automotive component maker Tenneco, an American Fortune 500 company.

blog.motorcycle.com

.

Headquarters:
Öhlins Racing AB
Box 722
194 27 Upplands Väsby
Sweden

Öhlins Distributors - Suspension Resellers | Öhlins

Öhlins Racing has distibutors in most parts of the world. Search by country and city to find the one closest to you and get their contact information!

www.ohlins.com

I think I misquoted them. I think they said the shocks were now made in Taiwan. Could be wrong though. In the end my choice of shock came down to 2 manufacturers. Nitron and Maxton. After some advice from a long term great mate of mine, I went with Maxton. His experience as a Porsche specialist mechanic and builder of race cars as well as bikes, he said Maxton was the one to go for. He has even helped Nitron develop a bike shock and he still does not like the product.

 

[Bevo]

I think they said the shocks were now made in Taiwan.

Öhlins starts a new partnership for manufacturing mountain bike products in Taiwan in 2017.
All motorcycle products are being engineered and assembled in the Väsby facility, which is located just north of Stockholm.

 

[oldcorollas]

I think I misquoted them. I think they said the shocks were now made in Taiwan. Could be wrong though. In the end my choice of shock came down to 2 manufacturers. Nitron and Maxton. After some advice from a long term great mate of mine, I went with Maxton. His experience as a Porsche specialist mechanic and builder of race cars as well as bikes, he said Maxton was the one to go for. He has even helped Nitron develop a bike shock and he still does not like the product.

What does your mate dislike about Nitron shocks?

 

[Roaddetective]

What does your mate dislike about Nitron shocks?

He said he tried them on a couple of his bikes, especially the bike he helped them develop a shock for. They for him just did not perform as well as he expected. A mate of his had a couple of Nitron shocks fail in a short space of time and had some trouble to get Nitron to replace or repair them. Overall he is not impressed. Once he put a Maxton shock on the bike he said it was a great improvement. I trust his judgement as he certainly does know what he is talking about mechanically. In his youth he also used to race bikes so knows a good handling bike compared to a poor one.

 

[CannonBallRun]

Well, I have now ordered a Maxton NR4 unit. It's a 5 week wait for them to build it for my needs, but from what I hear it is one of the best rear shocks around. Tried getting an Ohlins one at first, but according to a supplier, they are impossible to get hold of. They did tell me Ohlins have been sold to a Taiwan company, so maybe the build quality of an Ohlin shock might suffer. Anyway, a review of the Maxton unit by me once fitted will be posted.

Top job John. 👍☺
I’ll very much look forward to hearing back from you when you get it, and how much it improves the ride / handling / confidence.
I did 45 miles on mine this afternoon and have just one or two minor tweaks that I think I’ll try on my next ride. You might be surprised to hear that I’m now pretty happy with the set up of the rear shock and will just be concentrating on the front forks !!

 

[lidenskap]

I have a Nitron R2 with an optional HPA on my NSC, and it's miles better than what comes stock with it but there are a few problems that I think are not even necessarily Nitron's fault...
The engineers who designed NSC have actually made some questionable design choices that have put the looks first (single sided swingarm probably has a lot to do with this), and chose an inferior suspension design compared to the one on the CBR1000R for example. The NSC's rear suspension has no linkage (the frame is joined to the swing arm with the shock).
What this means in practice is you need a much stiffer spring compared to a similar bike with a linkage suspension and the Nitron shock does not have a top-out spring, so as a result you get a suspension with no free sag whatsoever if it's sprung correctly for your weight. On my bike given my weight (250lb riding solo) they have put a spring that was impossible to adjust for preload with a top mounted ring and is pretty much impossible to adjust with a hydraulic adjuster as well because in order to install the hydraulic preload adjustment you have to crank in a decent amount of install preload and the spring being stiff as it is just won't allow the adjuster to expand past 3 or 4 clicks (which is not even half of it's range), which is meaningless anyways because you already have more preload that you need at minimum setting!
There are also some access issues on the NSC with the top mounted manual adjustment collar - you just can't get to it, not with a Nitron tool, nor with any other - you have to remove the shock in order to adjust preload, so forget about adjusting it on the fly. That said - the spring Nitron installs is so stiff that you most likely won't have to even with a porky pillion passenger (sorry ladies).
With all that said, the shock that is set up in the factory with correct spring rate and preload for your weight works great once the rider is on the bike. The stock shock is borderline dangerous and I am not sure how it even made it out of the Honda factory - it makes the steering very unpredictable and the bike is unstable at high speeds no matter what settings you put in - the spring is just too soft (probably spring for a 120lb rider, being a Japanese bike) and it just doesn't have the amount of damping that is required.
I think this is pretty much going to be true for any other shock you can get, Ohlins or Maxon the handling is going to improve dramatically but at the cost of a stiff ride just due to the rear suspension design, the shocks all work pretty much the same.

 

[oldcorollas]

@lidenskap are you adjusting when up on centre stand (rear unloaded), or with rear wheel on the ground?

 

[CannonBallRun]

I have a Nitron R2 with an optional HPA on my NSC, and it's miles better than what comes stock with it but there are a few problems that I think are not even necessarily Nitron's fault...
The engineers who designed NSC have actually made some questionable design choices that have put the looks first (single sided swingarm probably has a lot to do with this), and chose an inferior suspension design compared to the one on the CBR1000R for example. The NSC's rear suspension has no linkage (the frame is joined to the swing arm with the shock).
What this means in practice is you need a much stiffer spring compared to a similar bike with a linkage suspension and the Nitron shock does not have a top-out spring, so as a result you get a suspension with no free sag whatsoever if it's sprung correctly for your weight. On my bike given my weight (250lb riding solo) they have put a spring that was impossible to adjust for preload with a top mounted ring and is pretty much impossible to adjust with a hydraulic adjuster as well because in order to install the hydraulic preload adjustment you have to crank in a decent amount of install preload and the spring being stiff as it is just won't allow the adjuster to expand past 3 or 4 clicks (which is not even half of it's range), which is meaningless anyways because you already have more preload that you need at minimum setting!
There are also some access issues on the NSC with the top mounted manual adjustment collar - you just can't get to it, not with a Nitron tool, nor with any other - you have to remove the shock in order to adjust preload, so forget about adjusting it on the fly. That said - the spring Nitron installs is so stiff that you most likely won't have to even with a porky pillion passenger (sorry ladies).
With all that said, the shock that is set up in the factory with correct spring rate and preload for your weight works great once the rider is on the bike. The stock shock is borderline dangerous and I am not sure how it even made it out of the Honda factory - it makes the steering very unpredictable and the bike is unstable at high speeds no matter what settings you put in - the spring is just too soft (probably spring for a 120lb rider, being a Japanese bike) and it just doesn't have the amount of damping that is required.
I think this is pretty much going to be true for any other shock you can get, Ohlins or Maxon the handling is going to improve dramatically but at the cost of a stiff ride just due to the rear suspension design, the shocks all work pretty much the same.

I appreciate your extremely insightful post Iidenskap. Many thanks.
I particularly agree that the design of the rear suspension with its lack of linkage isn’t the best.
Like you, I’d also foreseen that a Nitron unit without a HPA would need to be removed from the bike to allow preload adjustment…. what a faff.
However, I struggle to accept that the OEM shock is “borderline dangerous”.
It’s certainly softly sprung, but more than acceptable to me at 75kgs.
I’m sure its’ spring rate isn’t high enough for your good self and that’s why you looked at the Nitron (which can obviously be tailor made).
I always try to aim for the greatest possible level of ride comfort without compromising handling finesse when setting up a road bike.
I believe I’ve now reached that point, and that’s why I’ve ‘parked’ the idea of any shock upgrade. I still run relatively high rear rebound damping, so anyone too much heavier than me, will run out of adjustment.
As I’ve talked about nearer the beginning of this post, the front set up is just as important in achieving a good balance. I run extremely low preload and compression damping which helps to give the front end better turn-in while retaining straight line stability, and decent handling in the bends.
You’ve effectively achieved a similar end result, but at the expense of ride comfort (by your own admission). That’s not something that I could accept.
As I also mentioned earlier, we’re not starting off with a scalpel-like supernaked, and so significant OVERALL improvements in handling AND ride comfort are not easy to come by.

 

[Bevo]

The stock shock is borderline dangerous and I am not sure how it even made it out of the Honda factory - it makes the steering very unpredictable and the bike is unstable at high speeds no matter what settings you put in

That's just silly. My 2019 is my second CB1000R and I currently own a SC77 SP.

 

[lidenskap]

The reason I think the rear shock is not safe to ride at speed is because the spring is way too soft and there's not enough rebound damping so at highway speeds hitting a bump is scary, it upsets the bike way too much.
I agree with a 120lb rider it would probably be fine so your mileage may vary, also my expectations were probably off to begin with and I have definitely sacrificed a bit of comfort at low speeds for much better handling (I have replaced front fork cartridges as well to balance the bike overall) and more stability at high speeds, but that's how I like it.

Regarding the preload adjustment with the hydraulic collar - I am doing it with the bike on the ground obviously, unloading the rear spring would require a ladder and some ratchet straps so the practicality of a remote hydraulic adjuster kind of becomes moot at that point.

 

[oldcorollas]

The reason I think the rear shock is not safe to ride at speed is because the spring is way too soft and there's not enough rebound damping so at highway speeds hitting a bump is scary, it upsets the bike way too much.
I agree with a 120lb rider it would probably be fine so your mileage may vary, also my expectations were probably off to begin with and I have definitely sacrificed a bit of comfort at low speeds for much better handling (I have replaced front fork cartridges as well to balance the bike overall) and more stability at high speeds, but that's how I like it.

Regarding the preload adjustment with the hydraulic collar - I am doing it with the bike on the ground obviously, unloading the rear spring would require a ladder and some ratchet straps so the practicality of a remote hydraulic adjuster kind of becomes moot at that point.

Or Abba centre stand which unloads the rear wheel

 

[Bevo]

it upsets the bike way too much.

Sometimes you've got to stand up on the pegs, motocross style, even if you've got electronic Öhlins front and back