Who is to blame? - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Junior Member Panchdara's Avatar
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    I think you should name&shame your insurance company. It's obvious the blue car is at fault. That idiot was making an overtaking move and was not giving enough space. Secondly, I'd request they resit their driving test as overtaking at a junction is a big fat NO-NO! If you'd have known your insurance company (insert name here) was going to argue then you'd have got he police involved for a proper incident report. Shame I guess. Good luck here.
    Last edited by Panchdara; 08-10-2019 at 02:57 AM.

  2. #12
    Senior Member BigOne-94-14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevloc View Post
    NO---You were not wrong. Indicators tell other road users your intentions.---If they choose to ignore them then THEY are in the wrong, NOT you..----Think of all the mess the roads would be in if everybody decided to ignore stop lights.
    Indicators are a courtesy, and open to interpretation. You should pay attention to them and consider what the intent is.

    We don't know what was in the mind of the driver of the blue car, but he could have interpreted the signal in one of two ways: the driver is pulling out into traffic, in which case the onus is on the driver to look carefully behind to make sure it is safe. Or, the driver was planning to turn, in which case even though it would be wise to do a mirror/shoulder check before turning, we could surmise that his attention is forwards, not backwards and a shoulder check likely won't happen.

    Assuming he noticed the signal at all.

    The blue car, in performing an overtake, must do so with appropriate caution. So he is a bad puppy. But if you are going to ignore the precise road- positioning of the turning car and somehow always 'know' his intent exactly as he means it, then you are way more psychic than me.

  3. #13
    Senior Member COLVERT's Avatar
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    The driver was stationary and indicating his intention to turn right. ( Right ? )--Not pulling out into traffic as that had already been done.

    I believe indicators are MANDATORY.---You won't pass an MOT if they are not working.

    The blue car driver was the cause of the damage as he drove into the van. The van was moving AWAY at the time of the impact.

    If the blue car had stopped there would have been no accident. He took the risk of trying to pass a car that was about to turn right.

    He rolled the dice and lost.---------


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  5. #14
    Senior Member BigOne-94-14's Avatar
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    Lol. It is impossible to know what is in a driver's mind, even if your text is pink.

    Having indicators that work if installed is definitely a legal requirement.

    USING THEM is not.

  6. #15
    Senior Member BigOne-94-14's Avatar
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    Trevloc, take a good look at this picture.

    How far do you estimate this van is from the curb? And how far from the centre line? Do you know that you would know for certain, coming up behind the van, that the flashing indicators mean turning, today, or pulling into traffic to go straight tomorrow?

    I ask again: how would you know for certain that the van driver's intent is definitely to turn right?




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  7. #16
    Senior Member COLVERT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigOne-94-14 View Post
    Trevloc, take a good look at this picture.

    How far do you estimate this van is from the curb? And how far from the centre line? Do you know that you would know for certain, coming up behind the van, that the flashing indicators mean turning, today, or pulling into traffic to go straight tomorrow?

    I ask again: how would you know for certain that the van driver's intent is definitely to turn right?




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    There would be no need for me to know the van drivers intention. No need at all as I would not pass that flashing indicator.

    I guess that's why, perhaps , I've driven for 65 years on the roads in cars and on bikes and NEVER been involved in an accident with any other road user.----I've also helped to make insurance companies wealthy by never having made a claim.---Lol.

    ( Actually all us bikers know that by riding bikes we have a much better idea of what is happening on the road than those who have only ever driven a car. ) No steel box about our fragile bodies makes us develop an acute sense of danger. Without that none of us would last long. Re. ice, oil, diesel-and maybe myopic car drivers.

    Take care and get there is a good motto. Much needed by the driver of the blue car.

  8. #17
    Senior Member BigOne-94-14's Avatar
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    I cry bullshit. You were sure he was signaling to turn right before. I guarantee every rider and driver has passed someone who was signaling to pull into traffic. I note that you didn't bother to give your estimates of road position.

    I *suspect* this insurance claim will not be a slam dunk against the blue car. Geordie might have to shoulder a portion of the blame.


    "The driver was stationary and indicating his intention to turn right. ( Right ? )--Not pulling out into traffic as that had already been done."

  9. #18
    Senior Member COLVERT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigOne-94-14 View Post
    I cry bullshit. You were sure he was signaling to turn right before. I guarantee every rider and driver has passed someone who was signaling to pull into traffic. I note that you didn't bother to give your estimates of road position.

    I *suspect* this insurance claim will not be a slam dunk against the blue car. Geordie might have to shoulder a portion of the blame.


    "The driver was stationary and indicating his intention to turn right. ( Right ? )--Not pulling out into traffic as that had already been done."
    This is just a CALM discussion between forum members , Right ? We are not at war and neither of us is named TRUMP. Lol.

    I can only take the OP's word for it. ----See post 1,--- that he WAS indicating.


    If you think he is lying then that is your prerogative.---- He, by the way, was NOT signalling to pull into traffic, he was signalling he wanted to TURN RIGHT. ( As per post one. )

    As to road position, it would only be a guess on my part and as such not really relevant to the discussion.

  10. #19
    Senior Member Geordie's Avatar
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    Ironically road position has not been questioned, as stated earlier they believed I had started my right turn after the blue car had moved over the white line and that was the basis for me being blamed.

    Even though the insurance company have now done a U turn and claim to be fighting for a no blame settlement for me, I recieved a letter from them discussing my complaint. It contained the following text:-

    I’m sorry you are disappointed with the liability decision made by our credit hire handler, Heather. I understand that she called you on 1 August 2019 and stated that based on the third-party allegations and your footage, we would not be able to defend but would be aiming for a 50/50 split lability. In order to mitigate our losses, she paid the third-party vehicle damage on a without prejudice basis.

    So basically, even before she had seen the full allegations made against me, she admitted defeat and has paid the third party. I now don't see how I can come out of this blame free, as paying out is as much as admitting responsibility in my eyes.
    But it is there in black and white, the insurance company were mitigating their losses. In other words, it is cheaper to pay up than defend me!

    I should also add, it looks like Heather had misinterpreted the case law. The case law stated the maximum blame I should carry for this accident was 25%, so why offer to go 50/50?
    Last edited by Geordie; 08-13-2019 at 01:22 AM.

  11. #20
    Senior Member BigOne-94-14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trevloc View Post
    This is just a CALM discussion between forum members , Right ? We are not at war and neither of us is named TRUMP. Lol.

    I can only take the OP's word for it. ----See post 1,--- that he WAS indicating.


    If you think he is lying then that is your prerogative.---- He, by the way, was NOT signalling to pull into traffic, he was signalling he wanted to TURN RIGHT. ( As per post one. )

    As to road position, it would only be a guess on my part and as such not really relevant to the discussion.

    of course it’s just discussion. Where did I question whether Geordie was indicating or not? I don’t understand where you think I questioned Geordie’s honesty. I questioned where the Blue driver might interpret what he saw, if he was even paying attention.

    I remain fascinated that you appear deaf and blind to the fact that a signal ‘s intended meaning is open to interpretation.

    @Geordie, I’m also fascinated by the insurer’s stance that the Blue car had crossed the line before you moved. I’d be questioning the accuracy of that contention. Ironically it seems like you begin to move at the same time the Blue car comes into the frame. I’m not sure it is possible to tell with certainty that it has crossed the line at that moment.

    what is your plan, Geordie? Are you going to try to fight the decision? I assume yes on the 25 vs 50% share of blame ...?

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